karl_lembke (karl_lembke) wrote,

Terry Karney on John McCain

Another "critique" of the man. Scare quotes this time because he reaches new lows in writing. I'd expect something this juvenile and foul-mouthed from someone a third of his age and half his IQ.
...John McCain, the slimy little-fuck, whom I called a spineless git for making torture possible, is now making his support for it more obvious.

I've voiced my disagreements to Karney in the past, and he refuses to address them (unless "'shut up,' he explained" is somehow a valid rebuttal). Now, I think it will suffice to refer anyone interested in my case to an open letter.

An interesting bit of data came up on the Dennis Prager radio program, December 31, 2007. The relevant bits appear about 8½ minutes into the second hour of the podcast (which means between 7 and 15 minutes of commercial breaks have been extracted). The hour features an interview with
...Mark Bowden, national correspondent for Atlantic and best-selling author of Black Hawk Down, about the moral and practical repercussions of using “torture” to obtain critical, life-saving information from terrorists.

At 8:30 in, Bowden recalls the case of Wolfgang Daschner, a deputy police chief of Frankfurt, Germany. He was faced with a kidnapper who had buried a boy alive.

Bowden reported that although the boy had already died by the time he was found, he was found exactly where the kidnapper told police to look.

Kidnapping Has Germans Debating Police Torture

The first fact is this: on Sept. 27, Mr. Gäfgen kidnapped Jakob von Metzler, the 11-year-old son of a prominent banker, and murdered him by wrapping his mouth and nose in duct tape.

Four days later, Mr. Gäfgen was arrested after the police watched him picking up the ransom, but after hours of interrogation he was still refusing to disclose where Jakob was being kept.

That is what produced the second undisputed fact: imagining that Jakob's life might be in imminent danger, the deputy police chief of Frankfurt, Wolfgang Daschner, ordered subordinates to extract the necessary information from Mr. Gäfgen by threatening to torture him.

Mr. Gäfgen was told, his lawyer later said, that "a specialist" was being flown to Frankfurt by helicopter and that he would "inflict pain on me of the sort I had never before experienced."

A few minutes after being threatened, Mr. Gäfgen told the police where Jakob was -- at a lake in a rural area near Frankfut -- but when officers arrived there they discovered that Jakob, his body wrapped in plastic, was already dead.
[emphasis added]

Bowden pointed out (over 12 minutes in) that:
The truth is, if you talk to interrogators and research the issue,... you discover that fear is actually a much more effective motivator than pain. So when people think about torture and coercive tactics, they always think about the inquisition and doing terrible things to people. Most often, when it comes to that, the fear or the threat of inducing pain is more effective than pain itself.

Terry's response to any evidence that torture (and he defines "torture" as "any physical or mental coercion – any") might possibly work is to assert his claim "Torture Doesn't Work" more loudly, and call the proffered evidence false, tainted, or a pack of lies.

His advice to his readers is to ignore me. He doesn't want you reading what I just presented. Unfortunately, his unwillingness to sharpen his argument or even attempt to refine it only hurts his case.

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